Jocko Podcast 509: The Need to Lead: Dogfights, Dunker Drills, and Ego Checks. W/ Dave Berke.

Dave Berke's new book, 'The Need to Lead,' emphasizes that leadership is a universal skill crucial for solving every challenge, stemming from personal combat experiences and applying to all aspects of life.

• Leadership is a universal, learnable skill, applicable to all aspects of life.

• Humility, self-awareness, and actively resisting complacency are vital for effective leadership.

• Detachment from emotions and acknowledging imperfections enable better decision-making and continuous improvement.

Jocko Willink introduces Dave Berke and his new book, 'The Need to Lead,' which evolved from Berke's military and Top Gun experiences. The book argues that all problems are leadership problems and leadership is a learnable skill, essential not only in professional settings but also in personal and family life. It distills key leadership principles through compelling stories of combat and training, highlighting the importance of humility, fighting complacency, and practicing detachment from emotions.

Dave Berke's Background

• 00:01:14 Dave Berke's impressive military career includes graduating from Marine Corps Basic School at the top of his class, becoming a naval aviator and F/A-18 fighter pilot, and being selected as a Top Gun instructor. Despite this extensive background, he humbly introduced himself when he met Jocko Willink during the Battle of Ramadi in 2006, focusing on how he could assist the mission.

The Need to Lead Book

• 00:02:36 Dave Berke's book, 'The Need to Lead,' with a foreword by Jocko Willink, translates lessons from his experiences flying fighter jets, supporting ground troops, and leading Marines into universal leadership principles. Initially, Berke's writing was too formal, like a military after-action report, but through feedback, he learned to tell stories that effectively convey how leadership solves every challenge.

Flight Leadership

• 00:13:27 During a Top Gun final mission, Berke, expecting his superior flying skills to dominate, instead found himself in a prolonged dogfight, requiring his wingman's assistance and leaving him as 'tail-end Charlie' of his formation. This experience was a 'Eureka moment,' revealing that flight leadership — through principles like cover and move, prioritize and execute, and decentralized command — was the most critical factor for mission success, not individual combat prowess.

Universal Leadership Principles

• 00:24:16 Leadership principles apply universally across all environments, from military combat to business, family, and community roles. Organizations often misattribute problems to external factors or assume leadership is only for those in formal positions, but every individual is a leader, and all challenges can be reframed and addressed as leadership problems, making them solvable.

Humility & Ego

• 00:53:39 Humility is presented as the most crucial leadership attribute, a lesson Berke learned during his Marine Corps Basic School peer review. Despite ranking among the top students, feedback indicated his ego made him appear arrogant, leading to a profound realization that he needed to prioritize the team's well-being over personal wins. This self-assessment led to a complete change in behavior, transforming him into a better, more likable teammate and ultimately contributing to him securing a coveted F/A-18 pilot slot.

Dangers of Complacency

• 01:07:46 Complacency is a critical killer, as demonstrated in a simulated dogfight where Berke, as a senior Top Gun instructor, was unexpectedly defeated by his commanding officer. His overconfidence led to a slight underperformance in a crucial maneuver, allowing his opponent to exploit this minor deviation. This experience underscored the importance of remaining unrelenting and leaving nothing to chance, recognizing that even minor lapses can lead to significant failures.

Detachment as Superpower

• 01:20:12 Detachment from emotions is a 'superpower,' best illustrated through water survival training like the 'dunker' drills. When submerged and disoriented, panic leads to failure, while remaining calm, taking a breath, and methodically detaching from the immediate emotional response allows for survival and effective action. This principle extends beyond physical training to managing anger, frustration, and ego in all interpersonal and professional challenges.

Perfection is a Lie

• 01:44:49 The pursuit of perfection is a dangerous lie, particularly evident in the high-stakes environment of carrier landings. Berke’s early attempts to land an F/A-18 on an aircraft carrier were met with 'wave-offs' and 'bolters' because he tried to hide minor deviations to appear 'perfect.' He learned that instead of striving for an unattainable perfection, constant, subtle adjustments and immediate corrections to errors are what truly lead to success and safety.