Joe Rogan Experience #2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard

This podcast discusses the use of Ibogaine, a plant-based medicine, to treat addiction and other brain-related conditions. The speakers highlight Ibogaine's potential as a breakthrough treatment, emphasizing the need for clinical trials and regulatory changes to make it accessible while addressing safety concerns. They detail their efforts in Kentucky and Texas to advance Ibogaine research and legalization.

Ibogaine's introduction

• 00:18:16 Ibogaine's introduction to the public was through a rumor spread by Hunter S. Thompson in the 1970s, which damaged Ed Muskie's political career. This highlights how misinformation can impact the perception of a substance, regardless of its actual potential benefits. Despite its potential, Ibogaine remains a Schedule 1 drug, hindering research and access.

Ibogaine's mechanism

• 00:47:18 Ibogaine's mechanism of action is not fully understood, but it restores dopamine and serotonin production in the brain, resolving opioid dependence in a remarkably short time. This contrasts sharply with current abstinence-only or medication-assisted treatments, which have far lower success rates. The rapid restoration of these neurochemicals is a key aspect of Ibogaine's effectiveness.

Rick Perry's involvement

• 00:01:41 Rick Perry's involvement with Ibogaine began with a chance encounter with a Navy SEAL in 2006. This led to a close relationship with Marcus Luttrell, whose story and struggles prompted Perry's interest in Ibogaine and its potential for veteran mental health. Perry became a vocal advocate for the substance despite his conservative background.

Kentucky Ibogaine Initiative

• 01:06:20 The Kentucky Ibogaine initiative aimed to use opioid settlement funds to research Ibogaine's therapeutic applications. W. Bryan Hubbard, who led the initiative, explains the process of discovering Ibogaine's potential, building the initiative, and the ultimate setback due to political changes. Despite this setback, the initiative highlighted Ibogaine's potential and spurred further efforts elsewhere.

Ibogaine clinical trial

• 00:25:27 A Stanford University study on Ibogaine demonstrated remarkable neuro-regenerative effects in veterans with PTSD and TBI. The study, led by Dr. Nolan Williams, showed significant growth in brain areas responsible for emotional regulation and a reversal of brain age. These findings support Ibogaine's potential for treating conditions with currently limited treatment options.

Ibogaine's safety

• 00:52:08 Ibogaine carries a cardiac risk that must be managed properly through co-administration of magnesium and strict medical supervision. Improper administration can lead to serious complications, even death. The speakers emphasize the importance of seeking treatment only from qualified medical professionals in safe clinical settings.

Texas Ibogaine initiative

• 01:38:57 The Texas Ibogaine Initiative aims to secure funding for clinical trials in Texas, leveraging existing support for psychedelic-assisted therapies. The plan involves a public-private partnership with drug developers to mitigate risks and ensure the state benefits from any intellectual property developed. This initiative seeks to establish Texas as a leader in Ibogaine research and treatment.

Scaling Ibogaine treatment

• 01:39:00 Scaling Ibogaine treatment involves soliciting proposals from drug developers for clinical trials, focusing on safety and a return on investment for the state. Texas's strong medical infrastructure will be vital for conducting these trials and subsequently establishing treatment centers. The plan aims to create a sustainable model replicable elsewhere.

Spiritual aspect of Ibogaine

• 01:53:53 Many users report a profound spiritual experience and connection to the divine after taking Ibogaine. This spiritual aspect is considered a significant therapeutic element, providing users with a sense of purpose and unconditional love. The speakers believe this spiritual component is vital to long-term recovery and societal healing.

Government's role in Ibogaine

• 01:50:40 The speakers criticize the government's past role in creating the opioid crisis and its current obstacles to Ibogaine research. They express hope that the incoming administration's openness to plant-based medicine will facilitate a change. They emphasize that this isn't a partisan issue but rather a matter of providing effective treatment for those suffering from addiction and other conditions.